After months of teeth gnashing, a gathering of some of the best political minds in the country gathered to consider what the future holds for the Democrats
"Democratic Party’s capture by the woke left and had some choice words about Kamala Harris"
Is this the same James Carville who predicted with absolute certainty that Harris would win? Or the one who always claims the party is too captured by "the left" but never ever examines the role of highly paid, and highly comfortable, consultants like him in repeatedly driving it off the cliff.
In general I find your commentary insightful but I lose respect for anyone who cites Carville as a clear thinker here. He always seems to just be talking his book, and never examines the fact that his calls to return to Clintonian triangulation are simply unpopular outside of his narrow circles. Trump broke the standard rules and won. Democrats have been popular when they have advanced "woke left" policies like raising minimum wage and the green new deal, and become very unpopular when they then pivot away from them on the urging of people like Carville.
The bottom line is, the 90's have passed, and in the wake of the 2008 crash, the Iraq War, the Afghan war, and in the face of a climate emergency the mythical centrist voter that Carville hunts is gone. Punching left gets us nowhere.
Fair enough, Let me be clear that I neither expect cheerleading nor a lack of challenge. My point is that in my opinion Carville in particular has lost the plot. He has been pushing the same centrist line for years while at the same time confidently predicting victory in 2016, 2020 (which was too narrow) and now 2024. I really don't think he understands the electorate at all. And I note that when the Democrats lose, he engages in the same tired ritual of punching left rather than admitting that the Democrats are not trusted on economic issues.
I have no doubt that the panel or the audience agreed with him but this is in fact part of my point. Party identification is dropping rapidly, and in my experience as an Independent has been that the Democrats (and to an extent the Republicans) have narrowed their focus as the base of committed activists has narrowed.
In the case of the Democratic party leadership this has meant an increasingly myopic view of things as filtered through their consultants like Carville, and incumbents who keep blaming losses on cultural battles or "language policing" but who also fail to deliver consistent, clear, policy that makes a difference for voters. When faced with the clear outpouring of emotion in the BLM marches the response of Democratic leaders like Pelosi was to get themselves photographed kneeling in a Kente cloth and then do nothing for real changes in policing. Biden pushed some things yes, but he pushed back on anything major, and didn't spend much time defending the community programs he put in place. No far left group forced them into that show, they chose it.
When faced with the climate crisis the Democrats did deliver the programs in the IRA, but only after pushing hard against the Green New Deal, or anything major. And once the IRA passed they didn't defend it aggressively in the communities that felt it, they sat back and assumed someone else would.
I am an independent but I went door to door for the Democrats in 2020 and 2024. Noone I met was worried about or cared about "cancel culture" or "far-left" policies. Noone cared about transgenderism. Noone complained about pronouns or demanded mine. Even the socially conservative people I spoke with didn't care about that so much as their own family. And they didn't particularly think that the Democrats were after their pronouns.
What they all wanted to know was what the Democrats would do policywise for inequality, and the economy. They wanted clear policies, not warmed-over triangulation. And I didn't have a lot to give them from a party that seems hell-bent on projecting confidence on TV, giving minimal specifics, and then punching left after every loss.
I should not have said I was losing respect for you. That was excessive. But as someone with the foot sores to show for it I have lost complete respect for the Democratic party, and especially for the people like Carville who seem to sit atop it. We face multiple existential crises and rather than focusing on clear policies and any theory of the election that starts with blaming some activists on the left for pronoun usage seems to be destined to repeat the same mistakes.
Unfortunately that’s not how campaigns work. They’re a referendum on the party in power. If you think working class people were doing well under Biden or in Democratic states then I don’t know what to tell you
The Democratic Party is increasingly speaking to a very specific group of college educated folks. They speak in words and morally police in ways most Americans are pissed off by. Most of the time, elected Democrats on a personal level do not totally engage in the leftwing woke madness. But they rarely ever do anything to push back against it.
As you noted on the panel, Mike. They won’t accept that immigration is not the definitive issue for latino voters. They refuse to move on from the identity politics model that makes voters go, “Yea, Trump’s an asshole, but you’re an elitist who doesn’t get me.” They refuse to face any of this because they’re trapped in a progressive echo chamber that is out of touch with reality.
Remember during Biden’s 2023 State of the Union address when he used the words illegal immigration when talking about the murder of Laken Riley? The progressive outrage wasn’t that somebody got murdered, the outrage was that Biden used the words illegal immigration.
I could keep going, but the entire culture in the party needs to evolve.
Mike, I have not listened to the two-hour panel yet. I appreciate your posting it but am already overwhelmed with the news of the last week and need a time out. I will save the link.
After reading the summary article, I would appreciate it if you would elaborate briefly on the following:
"Madrid said when he asks Latino Democrats to look at their aspirational Latino working-class agenda, 'If you want to tell me it's minimum wage and strengthening labor unions, I would say you need to call last century, because that's where those ideas belong.'”
I.e., why would minimum wage and labor unions be irrelevant to Latinos? I realize many are small business owners, but there are also many Latinos in service industry and construction jobs. Of course, I am largely from the last century myself :-) and could admittedly do with some enlightening.
I have had this very strong feeling that the Democratic Party has left the working class behind in favour of groups such as transgenders and other "woke" causes. The working class has been one of the Party's greatest strengths. We need to emphasize them im platforming.
I’m fine with the woke causes - they’re our bread and butter - you don’t wanna lose women, minorities , LBGTQ+, disabled - we lose not only votes but also campaign donations . Just strong messaging for the working class - they should’ve /could’ve hit hard on this
That may be, but the working class should be centeredbecause most people sre working class and I heard very little outreach/messaging to that demographic.
Excellent Mike! I actually did see James Carville on Firing Line with Margaret Hoover & he is exactly right!! I look forward to seeing this panel in it's entirety!!!
I am tired of the blame game. Mexico and China are the winners. You act like there is a next time to vote, and it's politics as usual. Jimmy Carter was right. United States is now an Oligarch system. The billionaire pimps, political pimps and religious pimps played the American people. Eat the rich. The people can fix it by taking it to the street fight. Peaceful protest!!!!!
Okay - I’m a HARD agree with you on your last points. And I haven’t always agreed 😁
I’m in Denver , but not of Hispanic descent - married in my children biracial - live and work with many people in Latino community - colleagues, clients , neighbors , etc. I have had many many disagreements with people online who continue to think that sunbelt voters - or Black voters, B female voters are going to continue to make things happen going forward . ONLY IN SOME STATES - and those states ARENT IN The West. We are transitioning to a new era. One need only look at election stats AND demographics in these states to know that Black voters, for ex, are not carrying CO over the finish line .
OR WA CA NM CO - NV AZ ( pulling them along )
When will there be a Latino presidential candidate ?? It was foretold in The West Wing - make it so.
Excellent. And I agree with James Carville. I found Kamala disappointing when compared to other candidates in 2019–they all came to NH and I saw almost all. Eventually I got behind her, but we had to choose too quickly if we were on board or not.
She did really well for 7th string - but it was not the election year to run a female , or a black candidate - and I say that as a woman who got behind her - I f ing tired of losing
Yeah. I was still recovering from working for Hillary and Pete. I did get on board with Kamala, and I thought she did an amazing job of campaigning. No fault of hers, but she was pushed into the wrong messaging and she was, as you say a woman and black.
I love your always clear, honest, and concise takes. Without real solutions that improve daily life, no amount of messaging will bring voters to the polls.
But it’s the Democratic Party that didn’t want a primary. We voters did. So am I to listen to the people who lead us astray in the first place? Not so sure about that.
I kept looking for the part where the capture of the corporate star on everything from the media to meat. Where is the anti billionaire theme? The old democrats are all about getting money not ideas. Sounds like more of the same.
This is the kind of discussion that needs to take place amongst the DCCC, DNC and within democratic committees across this nation. I've been advocating for this in my democratic committee for quite some time.
"Democratic Party’s capture by the woke left and had some choice words about Kamala Harris"
Is this the same James Carville who predicted with absolute certainty that Harris would win? Or the one who always claims the party is too captured by "the left" but never ever examines the role of highly paid, and highly comfortable, consultants like him in repeatedly driving it off the cliff.
In general I find your commentary insightful but I lose respect for anyone who cites Carville as a clear thinker here. He always seems to just be talking his book, and never examines the fact that his calls to return to Clintonian triangulation are simply unpopular outside of his narrow circles. Trump broke the standard rules and won. Democrats have been popular when they have advanced "woke left" policies like raising minimum wage and the green new deal, and become very unpopular when they then pivot away from them on the urging of people like Carville.
The bottom line is, the 90's have passed, and in the wake of the 2008 crash, the Iraq War, the Afghan war, and in the face of a climate emergency the mythical centrist voter that Carville hunts is gone. Punching left gets us nowhere.
If you’ve e lost respect for someone sharing an opinion that challenges your own you’re in the wrong place. This is not a cheerleading site.
For the record, not a single Democrat on the panels or in the audience disagreed with him.
Fair enough, Let me be clear that I neither expect cheerleading nor a lack of challenge. My point is that in my opinion Carville in particular has lost the plot. He has been pushing the same centrist line for years while at the same time confidently predicting victory in 2016, 2020 (which was too narrow) and now 2024. I really don't think he understands the electorate at all. And I note that when the Democrats lose, he engages in the same tired ritual of punching left rather than admitting that the Democrats are not trusted on economic issues.
I have no doubt that the panel or the audience agreed with him but this is in fact part of my point. Party identification is dropping rapidly, and in my experience as an Independent has been that the Democrats (and to an extent the Republicans) have narrowed their focus as the base of committed activists has narrowed.
In the case of the Democratic party leadership this has meant an increasingly myopic view of things as filtered through their consultants like Carville, and incumbents who keep blaming losses on cultural battles or "language policing" but who also fail to deliver consistent, clear, policy that makes a difference for voters. When faced with the clear outpouring of emotion in the BLM marches the response of Democratic leaders like Pelosi was to get themselves photographed kneeling in a Kente cloth and then do nothing for real changes in policing. Biden pushed some things yes, but he pushed back on anything major, and didn't spend much time defending the community programs he put in place. No far left group forced them into that show, they chose it.
When faced with the climate crisis the Democrats did deliver the programs in the IRA, but only after pushing hard against the Green New Deal, or anything major. And once the IRA passed they didn't defend it aggressively in the communities that felt it, they sat back and assumed someone else would.
I am an independent but I went door to door for the Democrats in 2020 and 2024. Noone I met was worried about or cared about "cancel culture" or "far-left" policies. Noone cared about transgenderism. Noone complained about pronouns or demanded mine. Even the socially conservative people I spoke with didn't care about that so much as their own family. And they didn't particularly think that the Democrats were after their pronouns.
What they all wanted to know was what the Democrats would do policywise for inequality, and the economy. They wanted clear policies, not warmed-over triangulation. And I didn't have a lot to give them from a party that seems hell-bent on projecting confidence on TV, giving minimal specifics, and then punching left after every loss.
I should not have said I was losing respect for you. That was excessive. But as someone with the foot sores to show for it I have lost complete respect for the Democratic party, and especially for the people like Carville who seem to sit atop it. We face multiple existential crises and rather than focusing on clear policies and any theory of the election that starts with blaming some activists on the left for pronoun usage seems to be destined to repeat the same mistakes.
So under Trump, Republicans have good policies & good results?
I don’t deny that Dems have serious problems that go back at least as far as Clinton. But I haven’t noticed Rs doing a better job governing.
Unfortunately that’s not how campaigns work. They’re a referendum on the party in power. If you think working class people were doing well under Biden or in Democratic states then I don’t know what to tell you
The Democratic Party is increasingly speaking to a very specific group of college educated folks. They speak in words and morally police in ways most Americans are pissed off by. Most of the time, elected Democrats on a personal level do not totally engage in the leftwing woke madness. But they rarely ever do anything to push back against it.
As you noted on the panel, Mike. They won’t accept that immigration is not the definitive issue for latino voters. They refuse to move on from the identity politics model that makes voters go, “Yea, Trump’s an asshole, but you’re an elitist who doesn’t get me.” They refuse to face any of this because they’re trapped in a progressive echo chamber that is out of touch with reality.
Remember during Biden’s 2023 State of the Union address when he used the words illegal immigration when talking about the murder of Laken Riley? The progressive outrage wasn’t that somebody got murdered, the outrage was that Biden used the words illegal immigration.
I could keep going, but the entire culture in the party needs to evolve.
Peter - excellent commentary and I completely agree!
Mike, I have not listened to the two-hour panel yet. I appreciate your posting it but am already overwhelmed with the news of the last week and need a time out. I will save the link.
After reading the summary article, I would appreciate it if you would elaborate briefly on the following:
"Madrid said when he asks Latino Democrats to look at their aspirational Latino working-class agenda, 'If you want to tell me it's minimum wage and strengthening labor unions, I would say you need to call last century, because that's where those ideas belong.'”
I.e., why would minimum wage and labor unions be irrelevant to Latinos? I realize many are small business owners, but there are also many Latinos in service industry and construction jobs. Of course, I am largely from the last century myself :-) and could admittedly do with some enlightening.
Thanks again!
I have had this very strong feeling that the Democratic Party has left the working class behind in favour of groups such as transgenders and other "woke" causes. The working class has been one of the Party's greatest strengths. We need to emphasize them im platforming.
I’m fine with the woke causes - they’re our bread and butter - you don’t wanna lose women, minorities , LBGTQ+, disabled - we lose not only votes but also campaign donations . Just strong messaging for the working class - they should’ve /could’ve hit hard on this
That may be, but the working class should be centeredbecause most people sre working class and I heard very little outreach/messaging to that demographic.
Maggots are eating the soul of America
Excellent Mike! I actually did see James Carville on Firing Line with Margaret Hoover & he is exactly right!! I look forward to seeing this panel in it's entirety!!!
I am tired of the blame game. Mexico and China are the winners. You act like there is a next time to vote, and it's politics as usual. Jimmy Carter was right. United States is now an Oligarch system. The billionaire pimps, political pimps and religious pimps played the American people. Eat the rich. The people can fix it by taking it to the street fight. Peaceful protest!!!!!
Okay - I’m a HARD agree with you on your last points. And I haven’t always agreed 😁
I’m in Denver , but not of Hispanic descent - married in my children biracial - live and work with many people in Latino community - colleagues, clients , neighbors , etc. I have had many many disagreements with people online who continue to think that sunbelt voters - or Black voters, B female voters are going to continue to make things happen going forward . ONLY IN SOME STATES - and those states ARENT IN The West. We are transitioning to a new era. One need only look at election stats AND demographics in these states to know that Black voters, for ex, are not carrying CO over the finish line .
OR WA CA NM CO - NV AZ ( pulling them along )
When will there be a Latino presidential candidate ?? It was foretold in The West Wing - make it so.
Excellent. And I agree with James Carville. I found Kamala disappointing when compared to other candidates in 2019–they all came to NH and I saw almost all. Eventually I got behind her, but we had to choose too quickly if we were on board or not.
She did really well for 7th string - but it was not the election year to run a female , or a black candidate - and I say that as a woman who got behind her - I f ing tired of losing
Yeah. I was still recovering from working for Hillary and Pete. I did get on board with Kamala, and I thought she did an amazing job of campaigning. No fault of hers, but she was pushed into the wrong messaging and she was, as you say a woman and black.
Madrid is 100% on point, as usual. Current Dem establishment elites beset by chaos and unforced errors...
I love your always clear, honest, and concise takes. Without real solutions that improve daily life, no amount of messaging will bring voters to the polls.
But it’s the Democratic Party that didn’t want a primary. We voters did. So am I to listen to the people who lead us astray in the first place? Not so sure about that.
I kept looking for the part where the capture of the corporate star on everything from the media to meat. Where is the anti billionaire theme? The old democrats are all about getting money not ideas. Sounds like more of the same.
You kept looking for the professionals to tell you what you wanted to hear and then complained when they didn’t.
You just captured the whole problem right there.
Heads up. Please pass these on.https://youtube.com/live/stI7ZIb9FDg?si=96S4Rncy4V3jh07o
https://www.youtube.com/live/ekEXAcLVfmY?si=k3vMdcgNrowAMBBl
https://youtube.com/live/stI7ZIb9FDg?si=96S4Rncy4V3jh07o
Just finished watching, Mike.
This is the kind of discussion that needs to take place amongst the DCCC, DNC and within democratic committees across this nation. I've been advocating for this in my democratic committee for quite some time.